If warming is happening more in non-urban areas, how can global warming be due to urban heat islands?
Click the link below and check out the map of the average global warming from 2000-2009. This indicates where the surface stations (some of which have been criticized by that TV weatherman) are reporting the most and the least warming.
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/20100121/10year.gif
Note the patterns of where surface stations report that global warming is more or less strong. It bears absolutely no resemblance to urbanization in the world. Quite the contrary.
Global warming is greatest in places like Alaska, Northern Canada, Northern Russia, and the Antarctic Peninsula. The African deserts. How could that be urban heat?
Least in places like southern China, Florida, or the coasts of Australia, which contain massive urban areas. Just about average along the NE coast of the USA, one of the most urbanized places on Earth.
Urban stations are not showing the most warming, so how could they be distorting the data?
"It’s simple Bob, there are no temperature stations in the areas where the warming is occurring in Alaska, Northern Canada, Northern Russia, they are extrapolated hundreds of miles away from stations that are experiencing UHI."
A. There are no cities even reasonably close. The temperature stations that are used for extrapolation along with the actual stations in the far north, are nowhere near cities.
B. Hadley doesn’t do the extrapolations, and leaves chunks of the Arctic not well covered out. Their results are maybe (maybe not), 0.1 degrees different, not enough to change anything much. Details:
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/you-bet/
Didn’t you know Bob that it’s only the urban glaciers that are melting and the urban stratosphere that’s cooling?
February 5th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Didn’t you know Bob that it’s only the urban glaciers that are melting and the urban stratosphere that’s cooling?
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Where did you say the warming was located? Russia, Canada? Did you all cherry-pick those data points? Didn’t you drop a majority of the sites, when many of them showed cooling?
Oh and I absolutely love the fact that you are saying that most of AGW is the warming in the northern parts, but that we know during the MWP, that these northern locations were warmer than they are now. So how you use these to peices of information to say that the MWP was colder than it is now? Alarmunist logic gets hard to understand, especially when you see fit to change the historical viewpoint the the MWP was warmer, because it interferes with your precious theory.
What is even more amazing to me is what you think you have shown. In order to justify the action of raising our taxes and the amount we pay by $2500-$4000 per year during a recession, you should be able to show not only that the temps are increasingbeyond normal variation, but that man is causing, that the temps will increase more dramatically (that is more than the 0.7 degree per 100 years that we have seen), and that significant damage will be caused by the warming, more than just an increase in the amount of crops we can produce. The saddest thing is that the scientists are so unsure of the AGW scare, that they even have to cherry-pick the sites to gather the temps.
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
I don’t know. Fiendishly clever, these scientists. they might actually be using (shock, horror) ACTUAL temperatures, like they were caught doing at Climategate.
Andy, if you want to compare with the MWP:
The National Academies Press has released a book (free online) discussing the climate for the past 2000 years, and how well we know it:
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11676
That’s
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.
php?record_id=11676
Go check it out.
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Who said that urban heat was the cause of global warming? I thought it was the greenhouse effect.
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
Well hypothetically, temperature stations in urban areas could still artificially amplify the warming trend, if the UHI effect weren’t filtered out (which it is).
However, as you note, the region warming the most is the Arctic, and the northernmost temperature stations are not in urban areas. Here’s a list of the 34 temperature stations at the highest latitudes – every single one is a rural station.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/findstation.py?datatype=gistemp&data_set=1&name=&world_map.x=365&world_map.y=10
Same story for western Antarctica and northern Africa. So even if UHI were artificially amplifying the warming trend in urban areas, it would have a relatively small effect.
Personally I think the fact that the satellites show essentially the same warming as the surface stations is sufficient to debunk the UHI myth.
http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/4way.jpg
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
The warming is due to Gwen cooking her Kroft dinner and her Molson’s toots. Just ask the collective consensus.
References :
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/bleeding-star/TerrancePhillip.jpg
February 5th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Stop clutching at straws, the world is getting warmer, get it, warmer!
Whether or not it’s AGW is the biggie question.
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
First, the chart uses the cool period from 1951 to 1980 as the base line. Second, it doesn’t tell us any information of where it gets the data. I could go on, but this just shows that the AGW crowd is more concerned with being right then show us HOW it got the information.
Also, since we are still warming up from the period known as the Little Ice Age, the AGW crowd needs more proof then an increase in temperature.
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Has the ‘non-urban’ data been tampered with?
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Easy.
But there aren’t very many temperature recording stations in the far north, and it’s pretty likely that people who live there don’t want to walk a hundred yards to get it. So the thermometers they read are probably right next to their nice warm cabin.
That’s how. But I’m sure most alarmunists aren’t clever enough to think beyond their own preconceived notions about the subject.
And as we’re already aware that the alarmist "scientists" lie, we can’t trust their data anyway.
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
It’s simple Bob, there are no temperature stations in the areas where the warming is occurring in Alaska, Northern Canada, Northern Russia, they are extrapolated hundreds of miles away from stations that are experiencing UHI. The GISS is a flat out invalid source for representing temperature trends in the polar and sub arctic regions. That’s why in any other temperature record such as the satellites or HADCRUT 1998 is still the warmest year, but the GISS has been surgically altered to make it look like the earth is still warming.
The GISS is an absolute joke, you cannot extropolate warm biased station information to the poles and then average millions of square kilometers of extrapolated temperature data and expect anyone to take it serious.
http://reallyrealclimate.blogspot.com/2010/01/giss-temperature-record-divergence.html
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Bob, whats your point of posting that artwork? Why not posting the Monalisa?
References :
February 5th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
If global warming is happening on Mars, how can it be man made?
References :
February 6th, 2010 at 12:07 am
You really need to get over this "global warming" nonsense.
Everyone knows it’s a fraud.
I’m sure your business depends on people believing it, but you gotta move on. Find a real job and quit all the lying, ok?
Thanks Bob, Dana or Trevor or whatever your real name is.
References :
February 6th, 2010 at 12:23 am
First, how can any us say whether its warming or cooling when the data has been fiddled , adjusted and the original trashed. And secondly your first link is to a government site so we can safely assume that its politicised and is likely to portray the opposite of reality.
You know seriously I am starting to get really worried about the warmers, something just doesn’t add up.
References :
February 6th, 2010 at 12:39 am
Keep grasping at straws, Bobby. Maybe one day you will find one that works, or not!
Sooner or later you will realize the earth has been in a warming up trend for over 16,000 years and man had little to do with it. You warmers just love cherry picking short term data to hide the long term trends.
References :